chani | Sometimes I wonder

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Sometimes I wonder

What's the point? What's the point in doing this LJ thing again?

I can't tell you how many times I have been about to quit.

Because I had a dream, you know. It was to create a place where we could gather and discuss screen stuff around a virtual cup of tea. I wanted to use the web in order to hold a salon as Julie de Lespinasse or La marquise du Deffand did in the 18th century. We would have discussed movies and television as their guests used to discuss books and ideas of the Enlightement at the time.

But overall I failed.

The only times people really gathered in here were when the topic was about kinks or about commenting/lurking/de-friending because they felt curious, teased or in need of explaining themselves...which means they came when it was not a salon but rather a playground. It was cool, but it wasn't what this LJ was supposed to be.

I've indulged myself with playground stuff, I've posted memes when they were connected to the Jossverse or to movies, or just because I knew some of "my friends" liked to learn things about their flist and it was a way to connect -which is good- but I could have done the very same thing on their LJ.

I'm all for the Internet to be a place of sociability, but it's something I can have elsewhere, on boards, on my friends' LJ...

So what's the point?

Why should I keep on updating? Does anyhting of this still worthwhile? Has it ever been?

I can't help thinking that somehow, somewhere, I made a mistake or somewhat lost my way...

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Hon, I think you've hit what most of us have gone through at one time or another here. Why are we here? I came here originally to meet other people in the fandom -- to know that there were truly nice people left. I found that. But some days it wasn't enough, ya know? Then I finally decided that I'm here for me...to document my life. If people stay, that's great. If they don't, that's fine too. I just wish I had more time to devote to commenting and posting, but right now my time is very limited. Just know that I still love you and I still read your journal...even if I don't always comment. ::hugs::

It's the thing, Brat, I am not here for me. So what's left?

Well you and I are on the same wavelength today. I've been thinking the same thing. Wondering why and what the fuck.

I guess people are just busy or moving on or something. I think there's a core group of us that will always be here, but the outer ring will come and go.

I'm not feeling the best about LJ today either. I've been pretty pissed off this morning, to tell you the truth. But that's not making things any better, so I don't know. I don't know what to think. But if it helps any, I'm feeling the same way you are.

Must be hormonal...

I guess we need to find a reason, a purpose to carry on.

When I post something, it's because I want to talk about something. Sometimes it's frivolous, sometimes it's serious. Most times, it's nothing that someone else hasn't already said somewhere else. But nonetheless, I want to talk about it. It's always wonderful when someone else wants to talk about it with me, but if they don't, they don't.

It's LJ as a whole that's the party, not any one individual journal--each journal is one person at that party, joining a conversation in progress here, starting a new conversation there. And conversations bloom and grow and die away and start up again somewhere else, or flare into arguments, or devolve into flirting. No one of us is so brilliant and commanding that the whole party will focus on us at all times--if we're lucky, we get a few moments where all other conversation dies away because everyone is listening to us, but they're only moments, and they pass. And the conversation moves elsewhere, to other topics. And it's not that we've done anything wrong, but that there's just so many other things out there to see and hear and talk about.

If you want to talk, talk. And don't worry about who's listening.

I get that and that's why I said I probably made a mistake and lost my way, because the way LJ works doesn't fit what I had in mind when I started up this journal.

It's a board about movies and tv I wanted to set up.

I enjoy your posts Laurence, and I don't just mean the memes and the updates about the Jossverse.

It's interesting why you decided to start an Lj. I don't think many people have a 'plan' as such. I started it because I used to keep a journal when I was younger, and this is a nice way of sharing experiences, but also writing down things that I want to remember (which I actually tend to keep private). I'm so much quicker at typing, that I feel at least I'm leaving something of myself as I go through life.... one day perhaps my children and my husband will read it all...?

If you don't feel like posting, I think it's quite reasonable not to do so, and definitely not feel obliged to do so - especially if you are on boards and comment on others Ljs.

*hugs you*

I don't keep a diary, never did. I don't really think that my experiences are worth sharing. I was mostly interested in discussing movies and tv programms. LJ was easy, easier than to set up a website but I came to the conlusion it didn't fit my plan. I was too ambitious, or simply the format wasn't right for my expectations.

Reading my own words/hearing myself talking about films or series is pointless apart from making me practice English!

If I needed to write for writing I would do it in French.

Maybe tomorrow I'll think that me talking about movies and tv shows is enough to keep going. Today, I don't know.

I very much agree with what

rahirah said, who put it much better than I could.

I know a lot of people roll their eyes at LJ and write it off as superficial or self-centered, and that usually frusterates me a bit. Or how on that poll of Aurra's, when so many people mentioned how they "unfortunately" had an LJ. LJ isn't a bad thing, it's not something one should feel ashamed of. It can be whatever you want it to be, even though it may not always turn out that way. On the whole, I think it's a good thing, at least I don't think the bad parts outweigh the good. At the very least, you're writing down your thoughts, and I like writing down my thoughts because I'm afraid I might forget them otherwise.

I know this doesn't really tie in to what you're saying. I guess I'm trying to say that because you "failed" in your vision doesn't have to be a reason to quit the LJ project alltogether. I for one, would miss your posts.

Well, you may remember that I was rather anti-LJ once upon a time. I found it weird because it was the opposite of diaries used to be...personal journal were secret (they even had a lock and a key once upon a time)and suddenly they were online! I thought that LJ was a bit like reality shows or rather was the expresison of the same social tendancy...Above all, I was upset because so many fans left Buffy boards, withdrawing to LJ. I'm still a forum girl rather than a LJ person.

Maybe that's why I'm so sad that I failed in "my vision", in what I tried to turn my LJ into, because if I couldn't make it what I wanted it to be, what is left is something I don't really need. I do understand that many people enjoy LJ for what it is and if it suits your expectations, it's good indeed.

But *I* am frustrated at the moment and the only LJ thing I still really enjoy is to keep in touch with people I don't see anywhere else.

Having said that, I may change my mind and decide that simply posting MY thoughts on a film or a series is worth it.

...personal journal were secret (they even had a lock and a key once upon a time)and suddenly they were online!

You see, this is where I want to challenge you, pet. As far as I can see, LJ is actually a far more secure way of writing a personal diary than having a locked book in the bedroom. Here on the ether, I am 100% sure that not one single person I am linked to in my physical life is aware of my LJ id, how to access it if they were aware, and what my password is should they actually stumble across my id and www.livejournal.com

Were I to have a personal diary at home, it would be very easy to identify it and open it should someone be curious. I would positively NOT have said a great deal of what I've shared on LJ in a diary... the risk of causing pain and suffering to certain people in my RL would be too great to contemplate.

No... I think LJ is a very, very secure place for someone to open up and say things that otherwide would keep locked away inside themselves. A great place to get it off your chest (and boy, is mine a big one!)

Perhaps, if you have a very harmonious and close family, lots of friends in RL and a busy and active social life, LJ becomes less attractive. Not that I'm saying everyone uses LJ as a personal diary - although I'd wager a big percentage of users do use it as a virtual soap-box from where to raise issues and observations they would otherwise never have voiced. So, I think there's something rather therapeutic about LJ. Why write it down in a diary when you can share it without risk? The only thing one needs is to be accepting that someone out there might be interested enough to comment and you have to be prepared to accept the variable consequences...

I can see that LJ would need to adapted to meet other needs to remain a desired leisure activity if it most obvious benefit is not what's desired by the user. Then, I think there is the opportunity to create an LJ account, with memberships. But any success is then dependent upon there being sufficient like-minded individuals to keep such a community alive.

You see, this is where I want to challenge you, pet. As far as I can see, LJ is actually a far more secure way of writing a personal diary than having a locked book in the bedroom.

I never said it wasn't secure, I only said it was not secret, was not meant to be secret. The fact people could come across your journal in RL is irrelevant here, btw I don't want to scare you but LJ is not 100% secure either, LJ can be hijacked and I know someone whose LJ has been found out(by co-workers!), there's always a risk to be discovered by someone-who-isn't-supposed-to-see when you write something down. But it's simply a matter of different purposes I meant to point out.

Personal journals used to be for the writers' eyes only. LJ entries are "displayed" online while old diaries were carefully hidden. You used the verb "share", Chrissie. Thoughts, secrets, written on a diary weren't meant to be shared while LJ by nature is all about publicity.

I know that many LJers say they write mostly for themselves, and I believe them actually, it's definitely a mirror. However they write online and don't usually make the entries private, so they basically expose themselves to others' eyes, they seek them even. I am not saying it's wrong (you explained very well how therapeutic it can be), only that it's revealing a social tendancy and it's completely different from what a diary used to be...

The only similarity I can find would be with "journals" made by professional writers, or celebs, and meant to be published as books...made to be published actually. Or diaries written by people who might have thought that through their journal they would remain something of their life after they passed away. Although there's still a big difference and it lies in the immediacy that the Internet gives, and the reciprocity that LJ provides with its commenting tool.

Immediacy is also a symptomatic of our current society.

True, it is a bit odd. I still have a paper journal (though not with lock and key, I trust those around me!) where the truly private things go. But I have less trouble being open to people who don't know me in RL than to those who do, so I don't have many qualms about LJ.

I never thought to compare LJ to reality shows, although there are certainly parallels. But reality shows these days are fake all over, whereas I think LJ, or at least the portion of it I deal with, is much more real.

I see what you mean, though. I would like to continue to see your thoughts here (and besides, here is where they'll stay, while on boards they'll end up in archives and eventually get lost) but it's your decision. And I can still see you on Voy anyhow! :-)

I don't think you have lost your way, but notice the same thing on my own LJ. Whenever I write a well thought through argument, I hardly get any comments, but I do get comments when I whine and bitch or talk about sex. Maybe it's the nature of LJ, a different nature then other blogs, for LJ is renowned for its whiny and teenage-journal-like content. I have never thought of quitting and try to write a decent post once in a while, but I notice I'm slipping too. The good posts are getting a bit scarce in between the personal yapping. I don't think you failed, dear friend, I think we failed you.

*bisous*

You didn't fail me, you never committed to that plan *I* had!

It's only my own hybris I have ot blame. Thinking I could make of this LJ exactly what I wanted it to be was a mistake.

*bisous*

yes, that is, but that's because LJ is a tool that does certain things. You've got to learn to master the tool first and then make it your own. Which you have, ultimately.

frenchani isn't like any other LJ. It's you.

But I didn't necessarily want it to be me...I feel like I got trapped in LJ's system.

It's a bit like Angel who thought he could do something from inside the belly of the beast, yet ended up as a true W&H CEO, you know. ;- )

There's a system here? I fight it will all my might every post I write. (And I rhyme doing so...) Angel ended up true CEO of W&H, but turned the place upside down nonetheless (in a rather eventful way, okay, but yeah, he succeeded in making things different).

I've read through the comments and they're all very to-the-point. First and foremost: this is your LJ and that's how people will percieve it. But remember Lj isn't the only way to make a website or talk about personal stuff. It's one of so many ways, and maybe you need something different.

The "salon" isn't inherent in blogging. Of all the blogs I frequently read (and they aremany) only a couple of them generate the amount of discussion you'd like to have, and those blogs have immense heaps of traffic. I notice discussion is possible in communities. I've been following some lately and it's nice to read what people bring up there, but again, only so little of the discussions spark my enthusiasm to actually take part and give my ideas. I need feedback when I think I've written something interesting, and if those comments are ignored I might stop commenting.

But where was I anyway? Well, you can say you generate lots of comments when you talk about something people are familiar with and that's why these meta-posts get so much out of people: we all met this problem before, we all wondered why we keep it up, although people comment on strange posts.
And about the screens: I gave up on television. Ain't watching Lost, not Veronica Mars. When I'm through with AtS5, I'm gonna watch Firefly, though!

*bisous*

P.S.: I read you couldn't be bothered writing up reviews. Am having the same thing. Sometimes I write about books, or theatre, or film, but lately I can't be bothered to actually typ the damned words...

There's a system here?

Yes and you even defined it by saying First and foremost: this is your LJ and that's how people will percieve it. !!!

I know LJ wasn't the only way to make a website, but it's was easier for a novice like me. I never figured out how to set the webpage noos gave me...

Would you feel up to set up a "web salon" with me, Frances? A salon where we could discuss books, ideas (philosopy, morality or politics), films, television, art...anything?

Well, actually I'd love to do that. I always need an incentive to write some stuff up and maybe together we can lure some people in. I'm on AIM at the moment if you want to discuss it or send me an email.

Have you ever visited this site:

http://www.teaattheford.net/

That's where conversations such as you want to have take place all the timte...Have a look around, there's an incredible amount of material...

I know it. I knew it before I came to LJ actually. I've been a BC&S poster for more than 4 years and I've posted a bit at ATPoBt too...I've always posted my BTVS/Ats essays on the BC&S first and foremost even though I tended to copy them on my LJ for a while because I knew people there who were not (or no longer) on Buffy boards.

But what I wanted to have here on LJ was the same kind of thing about movies and other tv shows. Thought I could use LJ to do it. But it isn't the nature of LJ, I guess.

Oops forgot to thank you for the link nonetheless!

I think it was a lovely and ambitious idea to make your LJ a place where people would gather to talk about movies or books. And I don't think 'you' failed. It's not your own fault.
Simply people don't necessarily see the same movie at the same time or read the same book. Or they don't have something interesting to say about it , or they don't dare saying anything because they believe their opinions aren't worth sharing.

I don't know why some posts generate a great number of comments , and others just a few or none. I have no explanation .. There are some Big names that always draw people to them , of course , but otherwise we 're all in the same boat.

I entirely agree with what

rahirah said to you. Lj is beyond anything else a place where you talk freely of what takes your fancy. People will read or not , will comment or not , but in the end that's not really the point. I mean when it's not about fic or artworks , or meta!

So you should stay that way : share your thoughts , give your impressions of movies or books you enjoyed , and don't care who will answer.
You know I think we're always read by others , but commenting is another matter.

Cette année , je n'ai même pas suivi le festival de cannes. je suis incapable de te citer un seul film en compétition ( à part da Vinci Code) .. Je ne vais plus au cinéma , je ne regarde aucune série à la télé (ni rien en général ) , je lis et j'écris toute la sainte journée , coupée du monde.

Allez , j'espère que tu verras les choses plus positivement demain. Mais tu devrais poster quand çà te chante , et ne pas te forcer , cela est sûr.

je t'embrasse.

I entirely agree with what rahirah said to you. Lj is beyond anything else a place where you talk freely of what takes your fancy. People will read or not , will comment or not , but in the end that's not really the point.

Yes it's what LJ is for many people, but posting my thoughts wasn't what *I* aimed at, unless my thoughts would provoke other thoughts and discusisons. Actually I was more interesting in what others thought than in what I had to say, that was the point for me.

I guess LJ has never been for me. Of course this entry is a mere paradox because posting my thoughts was exactly what I've done here today...Told you I lost my way!

Je ne suis pas d'excellente humeur, syndrome pre-menstruel aidant, et comme j'ai une fâcheuse tendance au "tout ou rien" je me suis dit "à quoi bon continuer?". Ceci dit LJ m'a toujours frustrée, je préfère de loin les forums. J'ai cru, à tord, pouvoir faire de ce journal un forum.

Je pense qu'il n'est pas regrettable d'avoir de hautes attentes. Je comprend parfaitement quand tu dis que Lj n'était pas pour toi un lieu de 'confession' ou d'écriture mais un lieu d'échanges. J'attend aussi cela de mon journal. Je ne suis pas dans la nécessité de raconter ma vie , je ne l'ai jamais fait avant.
D'un autre côté , les petites scenes de la vie sont un moyen pour se faire connaitre des autres , et créer un lien. Donc c'est vrai que j'ai plaisir à , parfois , parler de moi. :-) Mais comme j'ai plaisir à écouter ce que deviennent les autres.

Par contre j'aime partager mon opinion sur tout ce qui touche la communauté et si je n'avais jamais d'échos de ce que je dis , je me sentirais un peu inutile.

Comme tu le soulignes , si on parle de ses pensées c'est pour entendre celles les autres.

Mais il y a tant de voix tout autour. Je pense honnêtment que les gens lisent tout , mais ne prennent pas le temps de commenter assez.

Honestly, I think it depends on what you wanted LJ to be. If it's getting you down because it isn't the experience that you wanted, then maybe it is time to give up. We would miss you, and that would be too bad, but there it is. On the other hand, maybe it's time to reassess what you want it to be.

Whatever your decision happens to be, I hope that you find happiness with it.

You're absolutely right.

I was PMSing yesterday and the fact all the tv shows were over kinda left a hole in my journal which might explain the entry...But lately I saw movies and didn't even feel like reviewing them anymore.

I'm not sure I want this LJ to be simply a journal about personal stuff, but I don't want to lose contact with my f-list...I might keep it but not update it for a while. Time will tell.

But thanks for your advice.

You don't know me since I mainly just drop in and lurk on your journal from time to time.

I pretty much agree with what you say about LJ. I mainly use it to keep up with other people, but I post private entries for myself. Frankly I think most LJers are a fickle bunch, and the fandom-oriented ones in particular.

Personal thoughts and in-depth commentaries pretty much go under the radar unless you've got a large, built-in readership. For the most part, I think people come to LJ for amusement and distraction from the annoyances of their daily lives, so anything that doesn't amuse (unless it's a cry for help) is just skipped over.

I'd also make allowances for the 'I have absolutely no idea what to say to this' contingent. People do read posts, but to go the extra bit and respond to it? It's easier to comment on something silly and light than on something personal and thoughtful.

Just my €.02.

I would raise a glass of Paddy and drink with you (or one of Tullamore, it's good too) if you wish!

"Fickle" is a pretty accurate word, indeed. Boards have died because of that. Ahhh the unbearable lightness of the being...

Le temps ronge l'amour comme l'acide

You found my weakness! I need no excuse at all to stop for a whiskey!

On a completely different (and snarky) note, Jane Birkin looks more and more like a strung-out crack whore.

Well, she isn't too bad-looking for a 60 years old woman, but yes she's been cultivating and untidy look for years and it's getting worse and worse and sometimes when she's speaking she can be just as "aware" as Jean Claude Vandamme! Maybe they both are on the same thing...

I use my LJ as just that... a journal. An on-line diary of sorts. My life is not very interesting, but by committing my thoughts to a place, I feel as if I have a sense of existence. An impersonal ether, as safe as a locked diary but, open to the eye of any stranger who might come across it. It's safe, and a fine confidant.

I'm delighted that I've found a small group of people who like me enough, despite learning possibly far more than they'd really like about me, to interact with me... empathise, criticise, argue and counter argue. Most of my stuff is family tosh, but I do occasionally ramble on about the lack of any real debates like we used to get on the BC&S Board.

I think the reason is because LJ is NOT a discussion forum. It's really a collection of individual journals, isn't it? And any entries posted to an LJ are dependent upon the FList, and any passing lurkers, finding the author's comments stimulating enough to enter into a discussion.

When you review films, I'm at a loss. I can't comment on films because I rarely go to the cinema. I occasionally comment on meta, especially when the post stimulates me. I think what you would like to get from LJ just isn't there consistently enough. LJ is too personal and individual a tool for that.

We need to go back to the Boards for intellectual stimulus, I fear. I do miss the 'healthy' debates and discussions we used to have and I'm surprised that more of the Jossverse writers themselves don't miss the intellectual stimulus - although I note more and more are new since I left BC&S and there a fewer and fewer of the Old School writers left.. could that be a contributory factor, too? Maybe the fanfiction writers frequent places we don't know about to get the intellectual stimulation?

How's BC&S doing lately?

I was hormonal yesterday when I posted (I guess I did need to bleed!), I'm more "balanced" now, but I meant what I said. I had to publicly acknowledge that I failed, that my motives for posting entries, my expectations didn't tie in with what LJ was. Mea Culpa, maxima mea...

Ok maybe it was also away to take a poke at LJ and challenge my possible readers in their own motives for posting. A little bit.

BC&S is pretty dead these days. So many have left.

Oh dear...

Chani, I love to read your posts both the deep and the fluffy. You challenge me to think and you bring a smile to my face (sometimes when I REALLY need one).

I know.

:- )

I think that, and will be the first to put my hand up for being one of them, most people want to have discussions in their own LJ. Kind of a terrortorial thing if that makes sense.

I always read your posts but you and also Frances take my breath away sometimes, I feel that you are both far more intellectual than me, you have such good points to make, and such prolific things to say sometimes, that if I posted to discuss your serious posts every time, I'd probably not have much worth saying.
That doesn't mean I'm not interested, because I read these posts and enjoy doing so, but half the time I've not seen the film or tv program myself, so can't comment - eg with LOST, I'm expecting episodes 13-finale to arrive this week, then I'm going to watch the whole lot again. I'll come and discuss that with you at your place when I've seen it, but again, your comments and opinions are so much more thought out than mine, I really do just like to listen.
I would greatly miss your posts and now I've just come back, you can't go!

Maybe you could set up another forum on Voy? TG did it and some others there. You could have a general discussion board on Voy and invite people from your LJ and the BC&S and others. Or create an LJ community. As I said, to get the virtual cafe in your LJ where people discuss stuff is harder, as people are all wanting that in there own LJ, if you have a community or board, people will go there for that reason.

I do think personal LJ's are a self-obsessed thing, and I don't mean that in a bad way - everyone who has a personal LJ obviously wants a way to share things with people that otherwise they wouldn't share - as Chrissie said, without the risk. For me, it's a way to keep in touch with a few people I miss from the BC&S and to have a moan or share a concern, or generally be silly, each time knowing that someone out there is likely to read it at some point, and be silly back, just listen, reassure me, or generally have a giggle!

I don't think you should give up your LJ, but I do think you should consider creating a voy forum for film and tv discussion, or even an LJ community that people can join. With your posts my dear, it will definitely be a good read.

"If you build it, they will come........"

love you babe!

most people want to have discussions in their own LJ. Kind of a terrortorial thing if that makes sense

Oh yes it does, and you're absolutely right. I also think they feel safer when keeping discussions on (or bringing them onto) their own LJ. I suppose it has something to do with being in charge and above all, being "at home" in your safe little corner.

I've always thought that many boardies withdrew to LJ because they needed their own Internet place to be safe.

I don't think you should give up your LJ, but I do think you should consider creating a voy forum for film and tv discussion, or even an LJ community that people can join.

When I see the nearly-dead state of many voy forums, and I don't think it's such a good idea. Not sure a LJ community would work either. Maybe I should simply give up my idea of a virtual café devoted to screens.

you've said enough that people will comment more???

I know I've avoiding your thought on lost post as I've not seen it yet, but I also know I've book marked it to come back and discuss when I've watched it!

Sometimes I've caught myself thinking whilst lurking on the BC&S that although this one program brought us all together, is there another one out there that can do that? I mean, do we have other things in common (all of us) or was it a fluke coming together that will never happen again?
I've not felt so strongly about something since Buffy, and I also think that a lot of my feelings for the program were created by being on the board. Lost has come close, but there isn't a community I can get involved in like the BC&S for that.
It reminds me of a really good holiday, or party that was so amazing you tried to go to the same place, or have the same people to the party, and 9 out of 10 times you can't. Maybe I'm waffelling.

You've got a valid point here. Yes the BC&S experience and the Buffyverse itself were somehow unique.

Maybe my mistake was to think I could set up tv/movies discussions within that fandom...

My readership comes from the Buffy fandom but my LJ wasn't fandom-oriented unlike so many others, and I dind't use it as a diary either...at the same time I kept mentioning the Jossverse.

It's like I was on LJ, stuck in the fandom but without playing the fanfom's rules and the LJ's rules.

How could I have succeeded?

At least you tried though!
That show passion and you would never have known if you disn't give it a go.

I always find the best things are the ones you expect nothing from....

xx

khe-khe-khe, I read and comment. Not my fault I don't watch Lost, but everything else interests me. Hey, am I not 'people' enough? :-)

You are certainly not "people" and it's a good thing.

;- )

Well... if you put Chani into this thing... this comes out...

Penis Name Generator (http://www.blogthings.com/penisnamegenerator/)

I'd say that was enough to continue on right there!
...

I mean.... it's sort of a sign!

King Kong... the movie ... oh well...

Have you seen yours?

With Lynn I got:

Penis Name Generator (http://www.blogthings.com/penisnamegenerator/)

But I don't have a penis and I don't want one!

I mean, I don't want to have a penis attached to my crotch...

Oh bollocks!

I feel like singing "Hey Jude" to you. You wouldn't leave and make the world a little colder, would you?

I am sorry you are feeling down, but the internet, and LJ in general, is a very weird social space. I can see where the fb you get from it would sometimes not be enough. But I do appreciate your voice, and your willingness to share ideas. The idea of a salon has merit, even if you haven't gotten the response you want out of it, and it's near and dear to my heart. I hope you find a place for it in your life.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Sometimes I wonder

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or maybe....

Re: or maybe....

you got me babe!

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