Peeking a boo

[chani]

I've been on a low-Internet diet this week. Too much work, too little time...and to be honest I kind of suffered from an indigestion of all things Internet. It happens.

So instead I actually worked and in the evenings I started reading the new Mankell's crime novel I had bought. As I'm downloading Lost, I think it's time for a meme.

Nicked from both mary5958 and alwaysjbj.

"One True Pairing" Ship: Buffy/Spike

"One True Threesome" Ship: Giles/Joyce/Ethan ....by the way you must read the "Menageverse" by mydeira and sadbhyl

"Canon" Ship: Buffy/Spike

"Not quite canon but should be" ship: Giles/Ethan or Wesley/Faith

"If this happens I'll stab my eyes out with a spork" Ship: Spike/Faith

"You are one sick bastard" ship: Giles/Buffy

"I dabble a little" 'Ship: Xander/Willow or Giles/Anya or Wesley/Illyria

"It's like a car crash" Ship: Spike/Drusilla or Angel/Cordelia

"Tickles my fancy but not sold quite yet" 'Ship: Xander/Cordelia, Willow/Oz

"Makes no canon sense but why the hell not" 'Ship: Willow/Faith, Wesley/Willow

"Everyone else loves it but I just don't feel it" 'Ship: Spike/Xander

"When all is said and done" 'Ship: Buffy/Spike, Giles/Ethan, Xander/Dawn

"Guilty Pleasure" ship: Giles/Ethan

"I can't believe I read it and liked it" ship: Spike/Jack in herself_nyc 's "Lovingkindness",  Angelus/William in "Sweet William" by peasant, or Buffy/Ethan by eurydice72 or Spike/Dawn by elisi
"Favorite "Older/Younger" ship: Giles/Willow

"My first I could never abandon you" ship: Buffy/Spike

Favorite Devotionship: Buffy/Spike

Favorite Nevermetship:  Willow/Ethan

Canon Ship That Makes Me Shudder (not in a good way!): Cordelia/Groo, Giles/Jenny, Spike/Harmony, Connor/Cordelia, Wilow/Kennedy

"I'm one sick bastard" ship: Giles/Dawn (not 14 years old Dawn though, rather a post-Chosen Dawn)

Favorite Pervyship: Spike/Buffybot

Favorite DominanceBattleShip: Wesley/Lilah

ETA: I forgot to mention a Dawn/Ethan fic I read and that I liked !

Comments

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

Internet indigestion happens to everybody once in a while , I think. It should heal quickly though. This ship meme is fun. So Giles/jenny makes you shudder? Why ?

And you've read Spike/Dawn? What ?!!!! Hear me roar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How could you , o perverted you? It's because it's so kinky and dirty , right ? I want to know the TRUTH !

(Glad to see where you put Spike/Faith )

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

I never liked Jenny actually. There was something off about her, and I didn't like the way Giles behaved around her. I think that 'ship was alienating for him.

But it was quite moving when he found her body.

Yes I read some Spawn, and I liked it, but only the fiction written by elisi. She wrote it in a post-Gift universe where Buffy was never resurrected, and as she said herself, she wrote a Spawn that works because it's wrong. I'm sure you'd like it too because it points out how Buffy is good for Spike on the contrary.

Spike and Dawn are both miserable and we see them pairing up for wrong reasons, Dawn is really immature and Spike gives in eventually and it's like he's regressing and reviving what he had with Dru, and you keep waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop and the disaster to come.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

I enjoy Elisi's writing yet I 'm sure i would never find any satisfaction in Spike/Dawn both miserable after Buffy's death.But i'm sure it's written in a sensitive way.
In fact I don't want Spike to find comfort during these awful time , I just want him to mourn.
Je suis si radicale je sais , je sais. Mais l'amour , le seul , le véritable , ne se compromet pas , jamais. On se donne à un seul être corps et âme et qu'il veuille de nous ou pas ne change rien .


Sexymermaid wrote some very kinky Spike/Dawn ( so I heard ) and I admit that I can understand the appeal ( that doesn't mean that I want to read , hell no !! )

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

As I said, in her story, it works because it's wrong for both of them, and Spike still mourns Buffy actually, yet he gives way.

I wouldn't enjoy a sexy Spawn or a happy Spawn...but elisi' story makes sense precisely because it happens in an alternative season 6 (Dawn is only 15 and had a crush on Spike a few months before, she's part of Buffy, the only thing left...). It's a disturbing and depressing "what if". You want to enter the story and try to hammer some sense into Spike, to put him back on the salvation road, but you can't stop reading it and you know it's gonna end badly.

Of course as usual with fan fiction, I actually prefer what we saw on screen story-wise. That's probably why my favourite fanfic are usually post-series.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Also what you wrote made me think...I don't think that you have to give yourself soul and body when you love someone. Because if you give yourself, you lose yourself. It sounds like an alienation for me. It's precisely why I could never 'ship Bangel. Both Buffy and Angel lost themselves in one another. Angel was right when he left.

I think that love should be about giving love, an unconditional love that doesn't demand reciprocity, not about giving oneself to anyone. It's also about opening up, letting someone in, taking someone with you on a journey, in your body, in your life, in your heart, in your head.

I 'ship Spuffy because Buffy didn't lose herself when loving Spike. Au contraire, Buffy found herself again, first through pain and violence in season 6 and later in "Touched". She remained true to herself, yet he was in her life, in her heart, on her mind (she was concerned about him) and probably still under her skin. And when it mattered she was there for him in season 7.

Over the long haul they were good for each other.

Spike was wrong in "Crush" when he said there was nothing left but her. Loving Dru was definitely an alienation, he gave himself to her, lost himselef then and became a monster for her, forgetting who the good man used to be, but loving Buffy led him to realize that he was not his own man in SR, so he went to get his soul back.

And I'm sure that even though she was in Italy, Buffy was still with Spike in Ats season 5. She was in his heart and in his thoughts.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

I think that love should be about giving love, an unconditional love that doesn't demand reciprocity, not about giving oneself to anyone. It's also about opening up, letting someone in, taking someone with you on a journey, in your body, in your life, in your heart, in your head.
It's beautifully said and I agree with you , it's my definition of love too.

Buffy finds herself when loving Spike , yes - as much as he finds again himself in some ways because I believe he let his humanity in the open.

In Crush I see things differently because it was more about obsession than love , don't you think?

Because if you give yourself, you lose yourself. It's surprising that our minds take different paths here. You give all your heart and soul and body if you love sincerely and passionately .. or do you think we give only a part of ourselves?

As for losing oneself.. maybe. It's certainly true in a way and that doesn't scare me as long as I still know what I am.

Buffy never left Spike's heart .. of course. :)

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

Quand tu dis que Buffy n' a jamais vraiment quitté le coeur ou l'esprit de Spike c'est entièrement vrai et ce que je voulais dire en étant d'accord avec toi c'est que selon moi , il n'est pas nécessaire d'être physiquement présent avec l'autre pour continuer à se donner complètement .. mais c'est un peu difficile à expliquer..

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Ah les mots sont des pièges parfois!

Je suis d'accord quand on aime vraiment, on ne cesse pas d'aimer même s'il l'être aimé est loin.

Mais pour moi il n'est pas nécessaire de "se donner complètement" pour aimer vraiment. L'amour pour moi ne suppose pas le don de soi à l'autre, je dirai même que "se donner complètement" c'est ensuite ne plus pouvoir vraiment aimer l'autre. La fusion en un c'est la mort de soi et donc de l'amour qui pour exister entre deux personne implique forcément deux êtres et non pas un seul.


Est-ce plus clair?

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Yes he was obsessed then, I guess.

You give all your heart and soul and body if you love sincerely and passionately...or do you think we give only a part of ourselves?

I just don't equate giving love with giving oneself. Maybe it's simply a different way to put it.

Ce que je veux dire, c'est que je n'aime pas l'idée de se donner à quelqu'un, pour moi c'est perdre son intégrité.

Personne n'appartient à personne (le truc du claddagh entre Buffy et Angel dans "Surprise" m'a fait hurler par exemple, d'ailleurs je n'aime pas cet épisode), on ne se dissoud pas dans l'autre, sinon ce n'est qu'une aliénation et alors ne peut vraiment donner de l'amour. A mon avis on ne peut "bien aimer" que si on est soi. Si on donne son coeur et son âme, comment pourrait-on encore aimer puisqu'on ne les a plus?

C'est le problème de Buffy après Angel d'ailleurs, et c'est le problème d'Angelus après Buffy. Joss a pris l'expression et a fait de s métaphore un truc littéral: Angel a perdu son âme et n'a plus de coeur!


L'abnégation ne signifie pas la perte de soi ou l'oubli de soi, c'est seulement placer les intérêts de l'autre en premier, même se sacrifier pour ceux qu'on n'aime ne veut pas dire qu'on renonce à ce qu'on est.

On peut aimer profondément, et même passionément, faire les choses les plus folles, braver des dangers, sans se donner, et donc se perdre, pour autant. Enfin je l'espère...

Je crois au partage avec l'autre, à lui faire une place et à lui faire du bien. Mais je n'appartiens qu'à moi-même.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

C'est une passionante discussion et j'ai tant d'idées qui se bousculent que je ne peux pas les ordonner!

Personne n'appartient à personne. Oui et non. Je comprends que l'on puiss se révolter contre le concept mais pourtant dans l'amour il y a une notion de possession et d'appartenance. C'est un sentiment exaltant que d'appartenir à l'autre. Il faudrait pouvoir définir cette notion d'appartenir.. là encore c'est plus dans l'absolu que dans le concret. J'aime à penser que l'homme que j'aime est à moi , d'une certaine façon , alors que je sais également trés bien qu'il n'appartient qu' à lui même.

L'abnégation.ne signifie pas la perte de soi ,c'est seulement placer les intérêts de l'autre en premier, même se sacrifier pour ceux qu'on n'aime ne veut pas dire qu'on renonce à ce qu'on est.

Oui , oui aimer c'est aussi se sacrifier ( et ne rien attendre en retour - on peut recevoir bien sûr , c'est mieux ! mais on ne donne pas pour recevoir ) et placer les intêrets de l'autre au dessus du reste , mais en efet je ne crois pas qu'on renonce à soi même en se sacrifiant , ou en se donnant complètement.


Je crois qu'on peut se donner entièrement sans se perdre , oui c'est là que j'aimerais pouvoir être plus claire. Si l'autre se donne entièrement aussi c'est une illustration sublime des vases communicants , une fusion perpetuelle non pas avec un vide aprés mais un enrichissement. On se donne mutuellement l'u à l'autre ,on se perd dans l'autre un temps mais on se retrouve aussi , enrichi, changé.

Pour reparler de Spike et Buffy , je crois que Spike se donne entièrement et il trouve une humanité , un désir d'être un homme bon en elle , par elle , donc il ne perd rien mais au contraire , retrouve des qualités enfouies que l'amour et la passion ont mis en lumière.. et ce qu'il a trouvé grâce à Buffy , il le retrouve bel et bien en lui ensuite comme s'il elle lui rendait quelque chose ..

[chrissie-linnit.livejournal.com]

We have so many differences of 'ships... I knew you had the old Githan kink going, pet... but, blimey! Some of 'em, I'm gobsmacked!

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Which ones?

You know basically, it's all about Spuffy for me. It's mostly what I read.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Hee! I'm one of those who like Xander/Spike...

I didn't get "When all is said and done" 'Ship... what does it mean? English is not my first language and I wanna use this meme :)

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Oh that was an old entry!

Don't worry, I know other Spander 'shippers and it's okay, but I don't get it. Spangel I can understand even though I don't 'ship, but I'm too much of a canon girl to accept Spike and Xander other than as potential friends.

As for your question, well I don't know what your first language is, and English isn't my native language neither, but I took the phrase as the final 'ship which makes sense at the end of the day, the 'ship that must overcome despite everything.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, I know other Spander 'shippers and it's okay, but I don't get it. Spangel I can understand even though I don't 'ship, but I'm too much of a canon girl to accept Spike and Xander other than as potential friends.

I think the appeal of Xander/Spike is about how to get them together, how to make them develop into accepting each other. It's the same as Spuffy being so interesting and popular because it took so long for Spike and Buffy to work it out, same with Xander and Spike, they also have a lot in common and that makes it work for many people including me. But I get why people can't see it. :)

As for your question, well I don't know what your first language is, and English isn't my native language neither, but I took the phrase as the final 'ship which makes sense at the end of the day, the 'ship that must overcome despite everything.

Thanks sweetie :) My first language is French. Your picks are amazing for this category.