Across the Sea
May. 12th, 2010 09:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chaniI'm pretty sure that I am in the minority, but even if there were flaws and heavy dialogues here and there in the last episode of Lost, I liked it.
Here are a few thoughts.
The episode had mythological vibes (Biblical but also Greek-Roman ones)which is always better than stuff like love triangle and tv cliches like that, and I didn't mind not seeing Jack and co. Actually I found it daring from the writers to do THAT so close to the end!
Claudia and mother Island spoke in Latin so I guess she and The Others came from a Roman ship...Jacob was Romulus and The Nameless Son was Remus, and they definitely were raised by a she-wolf!
Above all, I liked it because it worked as an allegory. No realism here, only poetical licence and metaphors. Hence a birth with very clean and big babies!
I liked how "Across the Sea" showed the archetypes of things we have seen before and would happen later on the island. I like the fact Claudia was murdered, for it fit in the mythology: pregnant women are killed by the island!
In French the word meaning island has a female gender("une île"), and so it has on Lost!
Also Mother Island stole the babies, setting a pattern for future characters(Ben, Rousseau...Kate). Her way of thinking was very Rousseau-like (the philosopher, not the crazy woman!): man can remain good if keeping a "state of nature" (Mother and Jacob live in the wild and don't even wear shoes!) because it's society that corrupts! Bad habits are the products of civilization.
Jacob accepted that belief and stayed within Nature while watching society from afar and coming to the conclusion that there was good in it; The Nameless didn't accept the belief Mother tried to instil into him, he went and experienced society and left nature, while having no illusions about people. Faith versus Cynism?
Not sure it's that simple. MiB seems to embody the very human "I want to know what there is across the Sea" and its corollary: "don't tell me what I can't do!". Anyway no matter that Mother told Jacob that he was like her now, Jacob and The Nameless are not in two different teams but the two sides of a same human coin.
I am not sure how to interpret the fact that The Nameless could see the ghost of his biological mother and learned from dead Claudia what Mother did. Not sure it fits in...However it seems to emphasize the fact that The Nameless was indeed the special one, not Jacob.
I liked how Adam and Eve turned out to be mother and son instead of a couple! Nice twist, and sorta subversive. Jacob and his brother obviously had Oedipus issues! "East of Eden" anyone?
Oh, and I liked the wheel stuff (I've always found it very poetical) but I was less impressed by the glowy cave/source of life thing (an the dialogue was really bad there). The invention of the wheel has often been considered as "a proof of civilization", a pivotal moment in late Neolithics when mankind progressed (although some civilizations actually didn't know the wheel!), and the episode made a point of showing The Nameless being attracted to men's devices and "sophisticated" artefacts so it makes sense that he build the wheel that Ben and John would use later to leave the island. I like the metaphor: leaving the island is using/choosing" technology" over "nature".
By the way Jacob tells his brother that he made "the rules" of the game i.e a "social contract" which according to Rousseau is the opposite of the "state of nature".
I like that the brothers started "playing" thanks to an Egyptian game that Nameless kid found on the beach.
Above all, I liked that it was all very grey despite all the white and black stones, and not a matter of good vs evil!
Jacob created the Smoke Monster by forcing his brother into the source!!!!
Mother Island killed the Roman people and destroyed the village and we still don't know where the big statue, the temple and all the hieroglyphs come from. If anything they represent civilization!
Because I missed Desmond, and I think he must have the last word, I will end this with what David Hume thought of "the state of nature" that MiB deserted and Jacob embraced:
"’Tis utterly impossible for men to remain any considerable time in that savage condition, which precedes society; but that his very first state and situation may justly be esteem’d social. This, however, hinders not, but that philosophers may, if they please, extend their reasoning to the suppos’d state of nature; provided they allow it to be a mere philosophical fiction, which never had, and never cou’d have any reality." (Book III, Part II, Section II: "Of the Origin of Justice and Property."
Here are a few thoughts.
The episode had mythological vibes (Biblical but also Greek-Roman ones)which is always better than stuff like love triangle and tv cliches like that, and I didn't mind not seeing Jack and co. Actually I found it daring from the writers to do THAT so close to the end!
Claudia and mother Island spoke in Latin so I guess she and The Others came from a Roman ship...Jacob was Romulus and The Nameless Son was Remus, and they definitely were raised by a she-wolf!
Above all, I liked it because it worked as an allegory. No realism here, only poetical licence and metaphors. Hence a birth with very clean and big babies!
I liked how "Across the Sea" showed the archetypes of things we have seen before and would happen later on the island. I like the fact Claudia was murdered, for it fit in the mythology: pregnant women are killed by the island!
In French the word meaning island has a female gender("une île"), and so it has on Lost!
Also Mother Island stole the babies, setting a pattern for future characters(Ben, Rousseau...Kate). Her way of thinking was very Rousseau-like (the philosopher, not the crazy woman!): man can remain good if keeping a "state of nature" (Mother and Jacob live in the wild and don't even wear shoes!) because it's society that corrupts! Bad habits are the products of civilization.
Jacob accepted that belief and stayed within Nature while watching society from afar and coming to the conclusion that there was good in it; The Nameless didn't accept the belief Mother tried to instil into him, he went and experienced society and left nature, while having no illusions about people. Faith versus Cynism?
Not sure it's that simple. MiB seems to embody the very human "I want to know what there is across the Sea" and its corollary: "don't tell me what I can't do!". Anyway no matter that Mother told Jacob that he was like her now, Jacob and The Nameless are not in two different teams but the two sides of a same human coin.
I am not sure how to interpret the fact that The Nameless could see the ghost of his biological mother and learned from dead Claudia what Mother did. Not sure it fits in...However it seems to emphasize the fact that The Nameless was indeed the special one, not Jacob.
I liked how Adam and Eve turned out to be mother and son instead of a couple! Nice twist, and sorta subversive. Jacob and his brother obviously had Oedipus issues! "East of Eden" anyone?
Oh, and I liked the wheel stuff (I've always found it very poetical) but I was less impressed by the glowy cave/source of life thing (an the dialogue was really bad there). The invention of the wheel has often been considered as "a proof of civilization", a pivotal moment in late Neolithics when mankind progressed (although some civilizations actually didn't know the wheel!), and the episode made a point of showing The Nameless being attracted to men's devices and "sophisticated" artefacts so it makes sense that he build the wheel that Ben and John would use later to leave the island. I like the metaphor: leaving the island is using/choosing" technology" over "nature".
By the way Jacob tells his brother that he made "the rules" of the game i.e a "social contract" which according to Rousseau is the opposite of the "state of nature".
I like that the brothers started "playing" thanks to an Egyptian game that Nameless kid found on the beach.
Above all, I liked that it was all very grey despite all the white and black stones, and not a matter of good vs evil!
Jacob created the Smoke Monster by forcing his brother into the source!!!!
Mother Island killed the Roman people and destroyed the village and we still don't know where the big statue, the temple and all the hieroglyphs come from. If anything they represent civilization!
Because I missed Desmond, and I think he must have the last word, I will end this with what David Hume thought of "the state of nature" that MiB deserted and Jacob embraced:
"’Tis utterly impossible for men to remain any considerable time in that savage condition, which precedes society; but that his very first state and situation may justly be esteem’d social. This, however, hinders not, but that philosophers may, if they please, extend their reasoning to the suppos’d state of nature; provided they allow it to be a mere philosophical fiction, which never had, and never cou’d have any reality." (Book III, Part II, Section II: "Of the Origin of Justice and Property."
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no subject
Date: 2010-05-13 11:39 pm (UTC)First, though the Island Mother wasn't the first, she wasn't a product of the Island. She said it herself, she got there by accident. Though we know that nothing is truly by accident if one comes to be on the island.
Second, light has been an important motif on the Island. The light from the hatch (really just Desmond turning on a light) that Locke saw and spurred him on. The light when the Swan Station was destroyed, when Desmond turned the key in the fail-safe. The light when Ben and then Locke turned the wheel with the intent to move the Island - though it didn't move!!! What is now known is that this was the MiB's mechanism, likely completed and implaced but covered over when something (Mother Island, I am not so sure) destroyed the Greco-Roman encampment (I add Greeks in the mix because they were the scientitst of that period). The MiB had them turn it simply so they would leave the Island (he was pissed Ben turned it first, meant for Locke to do so). And lastly, the 'Light of the Source.'
Now comes the Desmond analogy with this episode. Desmond was shipwrecked on the Island like Claudia/her twin sons. Desmond was taken in by Kelvin with the purpose of 'saving the world' by entering the numbers in the computer. Desmond is told that outside of the hatch the Island is evil which mirrors thee Island Mother's insistance that outside the Island all is not so good and that others (Romans then 'the others') on the Island are 'bad.' Desmond finds that Kelvin has been lying to him about the sickness on the Island and in a fit causes his death which mirrors the actions of Mother, Jacob and the MiB, collectively. Finally, Desmond turned the key in the failsafe and set off a bright light (liberated it?) was a mirror of Jacob throwing his brother into the 'Source' and creating the Black Smoke (but I wonder, could there be a prior 'Black Smoke?' And thus two?).
So what does it all mean. It might come to what 'Mother' said, that we all have a piece of the light in us and want more of it for ourselves. The light being power(?) and now even though the MiB/Black Smoke has the power he held prisoner on the Island by it. The Jack - 'man of science' versus Locke - "man of faith" motif was present between Jacob (faith) and his brother, the MiB (science). Now as we draw to a close Jack is taking on that mantle of faith and asking others to follow him again, but not as a leader from the basis of science. It all comes down to faith.
But where answers are found, more questions are born.
...
no subject
Date: 2010-05-14 09:19 am (UTC)But Mother was a liar, she lied to the boys, she could have lied to Claudia too!
But yes you're right, there's an parallel with Desmond's journey (and with all the characters too, for there are always Others, Hostiles, or the big dangerous Outside that they fear about or have bene told to fear!).
but I wonder, could there be a prior 'Black Smoke?' And thus two?).
By the way many fans seem to consider that since the Nameless died, the MiB we have seen is not Jacob's brother, only the Black Smoke that Jacob released, and that he was impersonating Jacob's brother(to taunt Jacob?) before just like he is using Locke's guise now.
I don't think it's true because Not!Locke mentioned his mother and told Sawyer that she was crazy. He also said that he was a man before and that Jacob took his humanity.
I forgot to mention that now we know that the boy MiB has been seeing in the jungle was young Jacob. It is interesting that he sees the ghost of the brother he loved and not the ghost of the adult who caused his death and whom he got killed by Ben.
I don't mind that we end up with more questions as answers are given. I doubt that all the mysterious details will find an answer anyway. I can live with that, and take them as poetical licence, as long as the resulution makes sense.
And, now that my dear Locke is gone, and because Desmond is my beloved, I say that he is the light that must be protected!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-15 09:12 am (UTC)I'm with you on the Black Smoke having the 'mind' of MiB. He was in some way transformed.
I wasn't sure the kid was young Jacob. I was going to go back and look but I have not done it yet. But not only the MiB sees young Jacob... everyone else sees him too!! Could young Jacob be a second Black Smoke??
no subject
Date: 2010-05-15 01:57 pm (UTC)Yes our Not!Locke still thinks of himself as the MiB but I think he's sorta possessed/influenced by Locke's mind too. He obviously has all John's memories, and we could wonder where the difference is between remembering being someone and actually being that person.
BTW it could explain his "protectiveness" towards Claire. It isn't like she's useful now.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 12:40 am (UTC)That thing about knowing Locke's mind freaks me out. I understand that the Black Smoke/MiB can read minds but dead minds? The MiB stated what Locke was thinking when he died (when Ben killed him). How could the MiB know that once Locke was dead and off the Island? Reading memory engrams from the dead brain of Locke? Sorta doesn't make sense.
While I think he sees both his mothers in Claire, I think the MiB has an ulterior motive in protecting Claire. Might have something to do with Aaron, like the MiB wanting to take control of Aaron once off the Island. That would fit with the reason why Claire was warned not to raise her own son while she was pregnant in Austalia. So there may still be usefulness for him. He/the MiB was denied a lifetime in the outside world, what better way to experience it but to become Aaron.
...
no subject
Date: 2010-05-17 05:49 pm (UTC)But I do believe the MiB is somehow connected to death since the glowy cave event and can access the memories of dead people(Christian's, John's). My main problem is about the ghosts appearing in the flash forwards. Hugo played chess with Eko and saw Charlie, Jack saw Christian. Were they projections of the MiB outside of the island?
Not sure that Aaron is that significant, I think he had a role to play in the main characters' journey (Claire and Charlie first, Claire and Kate afterwards)but I would be very surprised if the finale revolved around him. Once upon a time Walt seemed to have a key role and to be special but turned out that it wasn't about him.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-18 01:01 am (UTC)How else did the MiB/Black Smoke know to appear to Richard as his wife and to Mr Eko as his brother (Dimi?)? And how did the MiB know to appear to Jack as his father and lead him to the water at the cave? Simple. The MiB can read minds.
My main problem is about the ghosts appearing in the flash forwards. Hugo played chess with Eko and saw Charlie, Jack saw Christian. Were they projections of the MiB outside of the island?
I see nothing wrong with Hugo seeing Eko and Charlie, I think the Island was done with both of them and set their spirits free. I think we can put Jack's sighting of his father down to Jack being a druggie at the time. Or it might have actually been his father's ghost, it didn't have to be stuck on the Island.
I do wonder what happened to Christian's corpse though.... might have ended up in the sea. Or maybe it fell down the rabbit hole into the light!?!
...
no subject
Date: 2010-05-14 12:15 pm (UTC)A much better episode than last week's. I didn't mind some of the more obvious aspects, like Claudia giving birth to twins. And I just love the actress playing Mother - she was brilliant on West Wing as C.J. and here she gave us a fitting mixture of strength and tenderness.
I didn't mind the glowy cave - the CGI was bad, yes, but I like the idea of a source of divine light that has to be protected. Is it spiritual knowledge? The divine spark?
no subject
Date: 2010-05-14 03:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-14 04:26 pm (UTC)Well, a metaphorical 'divine' then. The source of 'knowledge' - and Mother would say it is bad.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-15 09:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-15 08:55 am (UTC)During the birth scene The Mother seems very happy and relaxed at Jacob's birth, and it's only when MiB is born that she grows concerned and murders Claudia. I know later in the episode she claims this is because she couldn't let Claudia take the babies back to her people, but I think that's only half right.
I think Jacob is correct in that he was unimportant. If it had just been him who was born I think Mother would have let Claudia leave unharmed; it was only MiB she was interested in.
Of course, Jack and Locke are similar to the boys. Jack isn't particularly special like Locke, who had an intuition for the island (and in S1 could sense the approach of rain, like Mother could). Jack is like Jacob; someone who has been told to stay and protect the island and will, simply because he has no other choice.
Speaking of "special", I thought it was interesting to see the language and terminology used by the Mother and the boys. These simplistic terms like "good people", "bad people", "special people" is just how the Others talk millennia later. Which lead me to think about Walt and his "special"ness. The MiB seemed to have some kind of psychic ability as a man (in that he intuitively knew about technology and how to tap into the Source - interesting that the smoke monster is a man of science, not a man of faith!) and maybe Walt was similar. Perhaps the Others abducted Walt simply to determine whether he was going to become a major threat like the MiB...
Anyway, rambling over! I enjoyed the episode, though I'd hoped for something a little more shocking and revelatory. I suspect, however, they gave us this relatively quiet episode to allow us a rest before the colossal finale episodes coming up.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-15 09:20 am (UTC)What I have now wondered about is Aaron. The Island Mother said someone born on the Island can never leave, yet Aaron did. Just wondering if that will have some play in the finale....
no subject
Date: 2010-05-15 02:04 pm (UTC)Nice parallel between Jack and Jacob indeed! You are right, Jack is sorta finding himself in Locke's shoes while he wasn't special unlike Locke who has a kid was already a "miracle" and connected to the island. Jack is the subsitute, like Jacob was, not Locke!
I'm still confused about The Hostiles/Others or rather about whom they really followed since it's the MiB who had been using the cabin for a while according to Ilana.
Now I must watch episode 7 of Ashes to ashes!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-16 09:48 pm (UTC)And I'm very well, thanks for asking! I don't post much but I do read LJ/boards every day, so I'm always around even if it's not obvious. I'll try to post more in future! :-)