Ok I watched Becoming Part 1 and 2 as well

[chani]

And I'm going to bed now but I have a few comments about Becoming.

In the opening scene of Becoming Part I, when Darla sired Liam...she told him exactly what Buffy told Angel before sending him to Hell:

CLOSE YOUR EYES !!!!

One more evidence that Buffy was Darla's double in Angel's journey...the petite blonde was the key every time, playing a pivotal role. Liam was damned when Darla turned him and Angel was sent to Hell by Buffy. And both time he had his soul when they said the words "close your eyes"...I wonder if it is because they didn't want to face his soul when killing him...

And really irony thy name is Joss...When Dru first met Angelus she kept calling him "Father" because she thought he was a priest since he was in the confessional, actually draining the priest, while she went to confession...and later Drusilla kept calling him..."Daddy"!!!

Also Angelus' attraction to holy places, churches here, may point out how self-destructive he was, hence this Acathla buisness and later Angel's whiny attempt at suicide in Amends.

And I wonder now...wasn't he still self-destructive in Ats season 5?

Conversely Spike enjoyed life and the world (the famous "Hello cutie" speech) and always found a way to survive, even though he needed to ask his enemies for help (Pangs).

At the end of Becoming Part 2, Spike chokes Drusilla to make her lose consciousness...Huh?

How can you choke a vampire who isn't supposed to breath and need air? It's the lack of air that makes someone lose consciousness!

Comments

[so-sharlemaine.livejournal.com]

Good catch on the "close your eyes" line. Haven't heard that one brought up before. There's something about Angelus/Angel and those little blonds.

I also noticed the choking thing. It was weird to me too, but being so new, I was able to ignore it.

Chani, I'm about to go back through my Buffy DVDs and watch for all these important things that I've read in LJ discussions. I'm also going to look for the Giles & Ethan slash opportunities that you love. I wish I had you to point things out to me. I'm afraid I'll watch them all 10 times before I catch all the little ironies.

*hugs* Sleep tight. Talk at you tomorrow :-)

[candlelightfrot.livejournal.com]

Yeah... the whole choking thing was a big faux-paux noticed from the very first airing... oh well. In a way it showed his love for her instead of punching her out - though didn't he do that earlier in the ep? Hey! Maybe he had some garlic powder on the sleave of that famous black trench coat! LOL!!!

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

The choking thing is rather like the drowning thing later in the series. Why do vampires react like that when they don't breathe anyway. But then, how can they smoke?

In the original Bram Stoker Dracula book (which I've reread recently) the vampires actually went out during the day. They didn't turn to dust when staked (it was to keep them tied to the earth) and there is no mention of breathing/heart beat. In fact it's inferred that they still have a heart beat...? They were able to turn into wolves and bats which is also forgotten in Buffy (apart from a couple of mentions in the Dracula episode).

So Joss can pretty much make up whatever he wants I suppose (all hail the Jossverse), as each writer brings their own ideas to the myth.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

The drowning thing? I don't recall vampires drowning in Buffy?

Excet Spike drowning in Buffy of course! ;- )

PS: Dracula is a good book. I like its structure and how Stocker used all the new devices of that Industrial time!

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

In series 7 when the First is torturing Spike by holding him underwater. There's been a lot of discussion about how that would be uncomfortable for someone who can't (or doesn't need to) breathe. But I suppose they have to take in breath to speak to, so their lungs must be functional (if only as 'bellows').

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Aaaahhh...well. I know why I didn't think of it. I tend to read season 7 through metaphors so I didn't think it was incoherent.

For me The First we saw with Spike was only a reflection of Spike struggling against his inner evil/fears (same with all the characters who actually faced the First until Buffy finally faced herself)...besides the ubervamp who tortured him came from HIS blood so it's a metaphor of the demon who still is in him despite the soul. So when Buffy killed the ubervamp in Show Time, she metaphorically saved Spike from his demon...hence the ending scene when she rescued him.

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

And there I was just watching the episode.... and not 'thinking' at all...(I'm so shallow!).....LOL!!!!!

Very interesting insight Chani!

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

At the end of Becoming Part 2, Spike chokes Drusilla to make her lose consciousness...Huh?

Cutting off the blood supply to the brain through the carotid arteries, not cutting off the air to the lungs. Or nerve compression.

Really that doesn't make a lot of sense either, but vampires must use the brain (or they couldn't be knocked out by a blow on the head) and obviously use blood (it's always about the blood) so there is at least some degree of logic to it.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Yeah I didn't thought of a pressure point...

Anyway as you pointed out it doesn't make sense either.

But the fact that vampires sleep doesn't make sense either, they shouldn't be subjected to human physiological needs.

[jerusha]

I totally agree with you re: Buffy as Darla's double. That point was reiterated in S2 of Angel when Angel was talking to the Swami in "Guise Will Be Guise."

And I've always wondered about that scene where Spike "chokes" Dru. It didn't make any sense to me either.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

What Swami told him (find a petite blonde, break her heart etc) pointed that was all about Darla for Angel. Buffy was her counterpoint in Angel's journey.

Actually Buffy and Dru also worked in counterpoint: they shared the same birthday, they were both very young girls (Angel said that Buffy was just a kid when he saw her in L.A and the lolipop/short socks thing screamed Lolita!)and so innocent. He broke her innocence/purity.

Dru was sired i.e turned into a forever child...playing with dollies, longing for her "daddy" but Buffy was meant to grow up, she was going to become a woman, and in season 3 Angel may have realized that pure Buffy was gone for him...so he left!

[jerusha]

Huh. That's an interesting point, about Dru and Buffy being in counterpoint. I always thought that whole Lolita/Daddy thing was really squicky. Now, I can't really even stand the Bangel thing since he fell in love/lust with a child. Yick.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Hi! I hope you don't mind me commenting in your journal. I was surfing friends of friends and noticed all your wonderful film reviews. And I really love your point about the repitition of "Close your eyes" in 'Becomming '. So like the way "You're beneath me" was used to bookend 'Fool for Love'. I wonder if Angel remembers Darla's words. Buffy repeating them may have fed the belief that she couldn't save him that he later demonstrated in 'Amends'.

Oh and vampire drowning/choking: If I were a supernatural anthropologist I'd have to conclude that the neck was a peculiarlily sensitive area for vamps. The number of times we see Spike and Angel or even the nameless MOTW vamps attack each other by grabbing or pinning back by the throat is too many to count. Maybe it's do with their original death being from 'neck trauma'.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

No I don't mind of course, feel free to comment anything. Oh and I love discussing Buffy!

:- )