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Spike the monster
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jamalov29 made me ponder what evil Spike did and the sort of vampire he was.
I do think that we can't "understand" vampires in BTVS without keeping in mind that they worked as metaphors, and that the special vampires' journeys told us things about mankind, hence my comments on Caroline's journal. I've always seen Angel as the metaphor of every man.
Because in the Jossverse if girls have the potential to become strong women and must achieve it like "Chosen" showed us, every man has the potential for both good and evil, hence the two personas of the Angel character on screen: Angel the Champion who did remarkable things and Angelus the evil bastard. That personality split was nothing but an allegory. BTW I really liked season 5 because then Angel became really human, a complex human being with shining moments and horrible flaws, and no longer the vessel for two different personalities.
So yes vampires were convenient to tell a story about relationships, about living in a violent world, leaving teenage and accepting adulthood (Spike in BTVS). But that doesn't mean that all vampires are alike or even equal (ok this sounds a bit Orwellian!).
jamalov29 made me ponder what evil Spike did and the sort of vampire he was.I do think that we can't "understand" vampires in BTVS without keeping in mind that they worked as metaphors, and that the special vampires' journeys told us things about mankind, hence my comments on Caroline's journal. I've always seen Angel as the metaphor of every man.
Because in the Jossverse if girls have the potential to become strong women and must achieve it like "Chosen" showed us, every man has the potential for both good and evil, hence the two personas of the Angel character on screen: Angel the Champion who did remarkable things and Angelus the evil bastard. That personality split was nothing but an allegory. BTW I really liked season 5 because then Angel became really human, a complex human being with shining moments and horrible flaws, and no longer the vessel for two different personalities.
So yes vampires were convenient to tell a story about relationships, about living in a violent world, leaving teenage and accepting adulthood (Spike in BTVS). But that doesn't mean that all vampires are alike or even equal (ok this sounds a bit Orwellian!).
What made of Spike the monster he was, he used to be before Buffy and the chip?
Several things actually.
First off, he became a predator because of blood lust. To survive you have to feed. Instinct of self-preservation is strong, and we learnt that Spike could adapt like nodoby else. It's easier to feed if you don't care about the food, and if it doesn't look like cannibalism. The poet in William must have found a way to see humans as food. We could hear an echo of that in "Becoming", when he referred to people as Happy Meals On Legs. It's a metaphor!
Sometimes poetic licence can turn into licence to kill...
But I would say that his behaviour as a vampire known for his slaughters was partly caused by his life before being sired. Same for Angelus btw.
William was a poet, rather not very orthodox, he lived in a victorian society with rigid social rules, he was loved by his mother and took care of her. The flashbacks from FFL showed us how much the high society mocked him, made him feel like he was not worthy. We could see his pain and his anger. But he couldn't quite unleash those feelings. I say quite because he still walked in the streets crying and moaning.
When he was sired, the vampire he became was a creature that could do everything he could not as a human. He could break the rules and be free. He could have sex while sensuality and sexuality was highly repressed in victorian society. So we got a sensual vampire who just wanted to bring on mayhem. We got a vampire who wanted to destroy the order that oppressed sweet William. He took revenge on the ones who insulted his poetry, he sought brawls, he drank too much, he shagged...and still loved his mamma (the new one aka Dru)and still took care of her. Relatives weren't a source of pain for him, love was important for him. Family was comfort for him. It's the social system he wanted to bugger. And he did.
Darla: (to Spike) Look, we barely got out of London alive because of you. Everywhere we go, it's the same story and now-
Angelus: You've got me and my women hiding in the luxury of a mine shaft, all because William the
Bloody likes the attention. This is not a reputation we need.
Spike takes a deep swig from a wine bottle.
Spike: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I sully our good name? We're vampires.
Angelus: All the more reason to use a certain amount of finesse.
Spike: Bollocks! That stuff's for the frilly cuffs-and-collars crowd. I'll take a good brawl any day.
Even 100 later, Spike was still a rebel and he killed the Annoying One. "less ritual and more fun" was his motto. He wasn't interested in making a new system, he didn' want to rule things. He wanted freedom.
Angelus was never like that. He never became a revolutionary, he never pretended to belong to the lower-class after being sired. It was family that oppressed Liam. He was a young man who felt helpless, who probably drank because he couldn't confront his father and he despised his father so much, calling him a pig who ate with his fingers (cf flashbacks in Becoming part 1). Liam's repressed impulse was to rule, to be top dog, he wanted to be the one in charge but didn't have the power then. He wanted to be the daddy, to control others' life.
First thing he did after becoming a vampire? He killed his human family and became top dog at last. Later he became a father for Drusilla, first by pretending he was a priest and then by turning her.
So Angelus became a vampire who got off from controling the others, torturing them, breaking them. Because torture is the best way to have control over someone. Just killing isn't about control. Fighting isn't about control.
Having said that, the relationships the vampires had after they were turned also explained their behaviour. For instance I'm pretty sure that Angelus' time with Darla explains a lot of his behaviour towards women (when evil I mean).
Also it's probably true that Spike became a monster because of Angelus, Dru and Darla. They taught him stuff for sure,and we saw in "Destiny" that William was eager to please his new family. He probably gave Dru everything she wanted which probably included killing young girls that would be like dolls for her.
Also I think that the more Angelus wanted to control him, the more Spike became a rebel. He had to overdo everything to piss Angelus off, so he probably overkilled while he could have killed innocents in a more discret way. And he killed Slayers.
Yes Spike became a monster and did horrible things but I don't think he was more evil than other vampires.
He certainly has been given more publicity though. And the nickname of William The Bloody must have helped. We know that Spike is a poseur and I think that the Council of Watchers bought it all, swallowing everything.
ETA: I forgot to add somehting...The chip was a fantastic plot device because not only it prevented him from attacking people but also it forced Spike into living with humans again, so he could no longer see them as Happy Meal On Legs. The more he became involved in their lives, the more it changed him. He fell for Buffy of course, but he also had a soft spot for Joyce and probably for Willow and Tara too. He let himself feel compassion for Dawn. He changed.
Yet getting back his soul was necessarily because there were things he couldn't fathom still, things he couldn't prevent. He lacked perspective until "Grave". He gave up his free will when Drusilla sired him, and got it back when he won back his soul.
Several things actually.
First off, he became a predator because of blood lust. To survive you have to feed. Instinct of self-preservation is strong, and we learnt that Spike could adapt like nodoby else. It's easier to feed if you don't care about the food, and if it doesn't look like cannibalism. The poet in William must have found a way to see humans as food. We could hear an echo of that in "Becoming", when he referred to people as Happy Meals On Legs. It's a metaphor!
Sometimes poetic licence can turn into licence to kill...
But I would say that his behaviour as a vampire known for his slaughters was partly caused by his life before being sired. Same for Angelus btw.
William was a poet, rather not very orthodox, he lived in a victorian society with rigid social rules, he was loved by his mother and took care of her. The flashbacks from FFL showed us how much the high society mocked him, made him feel like he was not worthy. We could see his pain and his anger. But he couldn't quite unleash those feelings. I say quite because he still walked in the streets crying and moaning.
When he was sired, the vampire he became was a creature that could do everything he could not as a human. He could break the rules and be free. He could have sex while sensuality and sexuality was highly repressed in victorian society. So we got a sensual vampire who just wanted to bring on mayhem. We got a vampire who wanted to destroy the order that oppressed sweet William. He took revenge on the ones who insulted his poetry, he sought brawls, he drank too much, he shagged...and still loved his mamma (the new one aka Dru)and still took care of her. Relatives weren't a source of pain for him, love was important for him. Family was comfort for him. It's the social system he wanted to bugger. And he did.
Darla: (to Spike) Look, we barely got out of London alive because of you. Everywhere we go, it's the same story and now-
Angelus: You've got me and my women hiding in the luxury of a mine shaft, all because William the
Bloody likes the attention. This is not a reputation we need.
Spike takes a deep swig from a wine bottle.
Spike: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I sully our good name? We're vampires.
Angelus: All the more reason to use a certain amount of finesse.
Spike: Bollocks! That stuff's for the frilly cuffs-and-collars crowd. I'll take a good brawl any day.
Even 100 later, Spike was still a rebel and he killed the Annoying One. "less ritual and more fun" was his motto. He wasn't interested in making a new system, he didn' want to rule things. He wanted freedom.
Angelus was never like that. He never became a revolutionary, he never pretended to belong to the lower-class after being sired. It was family that oppressed Liam. He was a young man who felt helpless, who probably drank because he couldn't confront his father and he despised his father so much, calling him a pig who ate with his fingers (cf flashbacks in Becoming part 1). Liam's repressed impulse was to rule, to be top dog, he wanted to be the one in charge but didn't have the power then. He wanted to be the daddy, to control others' life.
First thing he did after becoming a vampire? He killed his human family and became top dog at last. Later he became a father for Drusilla, first by pretending he was a priest and then by turning her.
So Angelus became a vampire who got off from controling the others, torturing them, breaking them. Because torture is the best way to have control over someone. Just killing isn't about control. Fighting isn't about control.
Having said that, the relationships the vampires had after they were turned also explained their behaviour. For instance I'm pretty sure that Angelus' time with Darla explains a lot of his behaviour towards women (when evil I mean).
Also it's probably true that Spike became a monster because of Angelus, Dru and Darla. They taught him stuff for sure,and we saw in "Destiny" that William was eager to please his new family. He probably gave Dru everything she wanted which probably included killing young girls that would be like dolls for her.
Also I think that the more Angelus wanted to control him, the more Spike became a rebel. He had to overdo everything to piss Angelus off, so he probably overkilled while he could have killed innocents in a more discret way. And he killed Slayers.
Yes Spike became a monster and did horrible things but I don't think he was more evil than other vampires.
He certainly has been given more publicity though. And the nickname of William The Bloody must have helped. We know that Spike is a poseur and I think that the Council of Watchers bought it all, swallowing everything.
ETA: I forgot to add somehting...The chip was a fantastic plot device because not only it prevented him from attacking people but also it forced Spike into living with humans again, so he could no longer see them as Happy Meal On Legs. The more he became involved in their lives, the more it changed him. He fell for Buffy of course, but he also had a soft spot for Joyce and probably for Willow and Tara too. He let himself feel compassion for Dawn. He changed.
Yet getting back his soul was necessarily because there were things he couldn't fathom still, things he couldn't prevent. He lacked perspective until "Grave". He gave up his free will when Drusilla sired him, and got it back when he won back his soul.
no subject
I think that living with someone like Angel(us), someone who is a control freak helped to develop the rebel side Spike has displayed several times on screen.
As for killing Slayers, I think that Spike did it to prove something to himself, because he needed challenge. Bragging afterwards and pissing off Angel might be simply a plus but it's also part of the equation.
I don't disagree with what you said though because I've always thought that Spike's years as a soulless vampire represented his adolescent self. He was stuck in a neverending teenage until he won back his soul and therefore accepted to grow-up. That's why Spike' s journey was a good parallel echoing Buffy's on BTVS.
no subject
I think that's overstating it, though. Angelus isn't a control freak. I don't think a control freak wouldn't be able to live with a woman as strong willed as Darla for 150 years.
Angelus' particulars is not being obsessed with controlling others, but with not being controlled. He likes being 'daddy' not for the control, but because it proves that he's better at it than his own father was. What he sees himself as doing, is helping people be all that they can be - what Angel winds up doing again with Faith later on.
And you can't do that if you make their decisions for them, like his father wanted to do for him. It's also why he gives up on the Vampire Penn, who he probably could control, but who has no imagination of his own and thus doesn't learn or do anything new or interesting.
I'm not saying he doesn't like control. But it's not the be all end all for him. Angelus might like that he can control Dru, but he gets tired of having to do it, and so he's usually pretty happy to have Spike around occupying her time and making her happy. It makes Angelus freer from her neediness.
And because Spike has an independent streak, and a lot of creativity, he's also a fun person for Angelus to work with. Even though he's also very frustrating for him.
no subject
Angelus didn't like chaos at all and so did not ensouled Angel. He liked situations he could control. And even after the soul he did make decisions for others all the time(Buffy, Connor and the mindwipe, Lawson in WWF). He may not have always sought control for control itself but I do think he had control issues.
Angelus didn't like surprises. It's basically what Spike told him in the FFL flashbacks, about fighting only when he was sure he would win.
Why did he keep William within his family? Well, in "Destiny" he said it was nice to have a male around, besides he coiuld have considered the newly sired vampire as a project and as you said Spike was useful in regard to Dru. They did have a complicated and intriguing relationship.
Also William was pretty, but there I'd be heading towards fanwanking areas.