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Spike the monster

A post by

jamalov29 made me ponder what evil Spike did and the sort of vampire he was.

I do think that we can't "understand" vampires in BTVS without keeping in mind that they worked as metaphors, and that the special vampires' journeys told us things about mankind, hence my comments on Caroline's journal. I've always seen Angel as the metaphor of every man.

Because in the Jossverse if girls have the potential to become strong women and must achieve it like "Chosen" showed us, every man has the potential for both good and evil, hence the two personas of the Angel character on screen: Angel the Champion who did remarkable things and Angelus the evil bastard. That personality split was nothing but an allegory. BTW I really liked season 5 because then Angel became really human, a complex human being with shining moments and horrible flaws, and no longer the vessel for two different personalities.

So yes vampires were convenient to tell a story about relationships, about living in a violent world, leaving teenage and accepting adulthood (Spike in BTVS). But that doesn't mean that all vampires are alike or even equal (ok this sounds a bit Orwellian!).

What made of Spike the monster he was, he used to be before Buffy and the chip?

Several things actually.

First off, he became a predator because of blood lust. To survive you have to feed. Instinct of self-preservation is strong, and we learnt that Spike could adapt like nodoby else. It's easier to feed if you don't care about the food, and if it doesn't look like cannibalism. The poet in William must have found a way to see humans as food. We could hear an echo of that in "Becoming", when he referred to people as Happy Meals On Legs. It's a metaphor!

Sometimes poetic licence can turn into licence to kill...

But I would say that his behaviour as a vampire known for his slaughters was partly caused by his life before being sired. Same for Angelus btw.

William was a poet, rather not very orthodox, he lived in a victorian society with rigid social rules, he was loved by his mother and took care of her. The flashbacks from FFL showed us how much the high society mocked him, made him feel like he was not worthy. We could see his pain and his anger. But he couldn't quite unleash those feelings. I say quite because he still walked in the streets crying and moaning.

When he was sired, the vampire he became was a creature that could do everything he could not as a human. He could break the rules and be free. He could have sex while sensuality and sexuality was highly repressed in victorian society. So we got a sensual vampire who just wanted to bring on mayhem. We got a vampire who wanted to destroy the order that oppressed sweet William. He took revenge on the ones who insulted his poetry, he sought brawls, he drank too much, he shagged...and still loved his mamma (the new one aka Dru)and still took care of her. Relatives weren't a source of pain for him, love was important for him. Family was comfort for him. It's the social system he wanted to bugger. And he did.

Darla: (to Spike) Look, we barely got out of London alive because of you. Everywhere we go, it's the same story and now-
Angelus: You've got me and my women hiding in the luxury of a mine shaft, all because William the
Bloody likes the attention. This is not a reputation we need.
Spike takes a deep swig from a wine bottle.
Spike: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I sully our good name? We're vampires.
Angelus: All the more reason to use a certain amount of finesse.
Spike: Bollocks! That stuff's for the frilly cuffs-and-collars crowd. I'll take a good brawl any day.

Even 100 later, Spike was still a rebel and he killed the Annoying One. "less ritual and more fun" was his motto. He wasn't interested in making a new system, he didn' want to rule things. He wanted freedom.

Angelus was never like that. He never became a revolutionary, he never pretended to belong to the lower-class after being sired. It was family that oppressed Liam. He was a young man who felt helpless, who probably drank because he couldn't confront his father and he despised his father so much, calling him a pig who ate with his fingers (cf flashbacks in Becoming part 1). Liam's repressed impulse was to rule, to be top dog, he wanted to be the one in charge but didn't have the power then. He wanted to be the daddy, to control others' life.

First thing he did after becoming a vampire? He killed his human family and became top dog at last. Later he became a father for Drusilla, first by pretending he was a priest and then by turning her.

So Angelus became a vampire who got off from controling the others, torturing them, breaking them. Because torture is the best way to have control over someone. Just killing isn't about control. Fighting isn't about control.

Having said that, the relationships the vampires had after they were turned also explained their behaviour. For instance I'm pretty sure that Angelus' time with Darla explains a lot of his behaviour towards women (when evil I mean).

Also it's probably true that Spike became a monster because of Angelus, Dru and Darla. They taught him stuff for sure,and we saw in "Destiny" that William was eager to please his new family. He probably gave Dru everything she wanted which probably included killing young girls that would be like dolls for her.

Also I think that the more Angelus wanted to control him, the more Spike became a rebel. He had to overdo everything to piss Angelus off, so he probably overkilled while he could have killed innocents in a more discret way. And he killed Slayers.

Yes Spike became a monster and did horrible things but I don't think he was more evil than other vampires.
He certainly has been given more publicity though. And the nickname of William The Bloody must have helped. We know that Spike is a poseur and I think that the Council of Watchers bought it all, swallowing everything.

ETA: I forgot to add somehting...The chip was a fantastic plot device because not only it prevented him from attacking people but also it forced Spike into living with humans again, so he could no longer see them as Happy Meal On Legs. The more he became involved in their lives, the more it changed him. He fell for Buffy of course, but he also had a soft spot for Joyce and probably for Willow and Tara too. He let himself feel compassion for Dawn. He changed.

Yet getting back his soul was necessarily because there were things he couldn't fathom still, things he couldn't prevent. He lacked perspective until "Grave". He gave up his free will when Drusilla sired him, and got it back when he won back his soul.

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I admire the way you articulate your thoughts , it seems so much easier for you!
*is envious*
I am frustrated because I don't have a wide range of vocabulary or grammar skills and I don't seem to be able to convey my thoughts as perfectly as I would like.

I agree with your perception of vampires as metaphors of men.
vampires were convenient to tell a story about relationships, about living in a violent world, leaving teenage and accepting adulthood (Spike in BTVS). But that doesn't mean that all vampires are alike or even equal Absolutely. And we all know how extraordinary and unique Spike is.
But there is little to no reason to think that Spike hasn't been enjoying his vampire nature.
Like you explained eloquently , he did because it was freedom , among many other things.

It's also well known that Spike became a monster because of the three others . Spike admits it himself .

Honestly, do I like a perverse and cruel and very dark Spike? No. I KNOW he has been and maybe still can be , I don't want to know HOW.

It was a very well put post , Laurence.

Just edited it, because I forgot something!

Merci pour ta gentillesse.

As I said in the last comment in my journal a vampire can represent all the wild , untamed, most violent tendencies in a human being , but as much as getting back his soul will give Spike his free will back , that doesn't mean that he will stop being evil.

And we can ponder over what exactly is a vampire with a soul? It's not completely a man , it's no more a monster.

.. Need to leave to make dinner !

Of course it doesn't mean he will stop being evil.

So far men over the world still do many evil things.

And you know my reading of the First Evil on BTVS, it's only a reflection of the inner evil tghat lies in every body for me. Souled Spike fed the FE with his fears, weaknesses and demons just like any other character, including Buffy herself.

Excellent post!

::has no time to comment further::

I agree - the 'rush and crunch' I think was how Spike described it. He loved the fight, the killing, not so much the torture. Shown when he decided to end it all when he thought he couldn't fight any more after having the chip implanted.

Very well put sweetie!

He's an impulsive person, and a bit of a drama queen, not a control freak.

I think there is more than one kind of evil. Angelus represented the sort of conscious malevolence, cruelty and will to power that the word most usually evokes. But there’s also the evil that comes from just not caring. I think S6 of BtVS showcases this later form. Warren, Andrew, Jonathan and junkie!Willow just want to have fun, they don’t even think about who might get hurt, althoughWarren (like William) may also want to settle scores with those who used to belittle him. In Tabula Rasa Spike shows no bloodlust but in the very next episode he sets out to kill a girl just to make a point in an argument with Buffy, someone his victim has probably never even met. In the sense of not caring he is more evil than other vampires because, being fearless and out to prove a point, he’s killed more people and still doesn’t care.

True. Evil is everywhere, in everyone and shows in various forms or kinds.

It's something the writers pointed out with the First Evil in season 7.

Can you please check the community? (And I mean: Check every tiny little detail, because I've been tweaking alot of the text as well.)

Nice read btw. Finally saw last two Angels yesterday. I miss it... :-(

You forgot the "e" in Internaute on the top page. I would have corrected it, but I can't find the way to change the title!

I think we need another icon, because that one is bit a creepy and doesn't fit the idea of the Salon.

that's the problem. I wrote in the title, then noticed it was wrong and can't seem to be able to change it again. :-(

(It's something to do with changing the style management pages... I'll correct it as quickly as possible...)

Other icon will be provided. This was something I had lieing around.

I mostly agree with your analysis.

One thing though, the chip doesn't force him to live with humans. The chip in no way makes him value the people around him.

IMO, he falls in love with Buffy and his attachments mostly come from that, not the chip. From being people Buffy loves. For instance, I doubt he'd kill Xander (a person he at the very least dislikes) because it would hurt Buffy, even without the chip (post S4).

Anyone not connected to Buffy though? Most wouldn't survive a meeting with him.

Because Spike, pre Soul, is still very much, an evil vampire. Being in love wouldn't change that fact.

Well, he came to Giles' house, he became a Scoobies' familiar because of the chip. He couldn't count on demons and vampires to help him. Harmony didn't feed him when he asked. He begged the Scoobies to help him, they fed him and kept him with them . It was the first step, but without the chip he wouldn't have been thrown in their lives, in Giles' home.

And then "Something Blue" happened...

I think some of BtVS's worst problems arose when they put the metaphor ahead of the characterization or the plot. If you posit that vampires have no free will, then they're not really characters at all, just walking allegories. None of their actions or decisions mean anything, and why should we care about them? Once they start becoming individuals with personalities and motivations, they become characters, become real, become people, whether the writer likes it or not, whether the initial framework of metaphor allowed for it or not.

And once that happens, you can continue to treat them like characters, or you can try to stuff them back into the confining box of metaphor. ME tried the latter. Unfortunately, the parts no longer fit very well, and a few limbs got lopped off in the process.

It's true, metaphor came into conflict with characterization sometimes. But not that much.

But there's even worse. Metaphors changed too. What Angel's soul represented wasn't the same as what Spike's soul represented IMO. Even being a vampire doesn't mean the same thing. In Spike's case, as Shadowkat put it very well a few years ago, it's a Peter Pan syndrom, and it suited BTVS that was about growing-up. Spike was a for ever teenager until season 7.

But it doesn't work with his grandsire. Angel being a vampire served another story.

But oddly enough it doesn't bother me. I can enjoy the characters as characters, and also shift my viewing mode and parse the shows through the prisms of various metaphors.

Also it's probably true that Spike became a monster because of Angelus, Dru and Darla. They taught him stuff for sure,and we saw in "Destiny" that William was eager to please his new family.

I disagree. William became a monster, because Dru turned him into a vampire, yes. But the rest was up to him.

Darla, Dru and Angelus' desire to teach would have meant nothing without Spike's desire to learn. He didn't have to do that. He didn't have to try to please them. He didn't have to stick around. And he's certainly not under their control - In FFL, it's pretty clear that he does what he pleases. It is Angelus and Darla who is forced to stop being what they want to be, in order to still have William and Drusilla with them. Living in the squalid mineshafts instead of the splendor that Angelus and Darla prefer.

But Angelus wants to have a family, and so he must make compromises.

Spike is not a patsy. He genuinely likes doing what he does. There's nothing fake about his riot-induced exhilaration. In one minute or another, sure, Spike would do things to 'stick it to Angelus' but more than that, he does what he does because he enjoys it.

And his idea of fun came to him long before he ever knew who Drusilla was. He just didn't have the drive or opportunity to act upon it.

Well, methinks I said before the bit you quoted that his becoming a monster was caused by several things and was tied in with his human past above all, but "education" couldn't not be part of it.

It's obvious in "Destiny" that Angelus decided to teach William.

Darla, Dru and Angelus' desire to teach would have meant nothing without Spike's desire to learn. He didn't have to do that. He didn't have to try to please them. He didn't have to stick around.

Of course he wanted to learn. One feature of William's personality is that he never quite fit in, but was always desperate to be accepted, to belong to something, to be loved. He needed to please his new family and to stick around. He had nothing else left after he dusted Anne and Dru was already his everything.

BTW we saw almost the same pattern with Lawson and Angel in WWF, except that this time Angel deserted the newly sired vampire, forced him to go.

There's nothing fake about his riot-induced exhilaration. In one minute or another, sure, Spike would do things to 'stick it to Angelus' but more than that, he does what he does because he enjoys it.

I never said it was fake! I precisely pointed out that bringing mayhem, getting drunk, causing brawls and riots was what defined him as a vampire unlike Angelus. Did you read the beginning of the post?

And he's certainly not under their control - In FFL, it's pretty clear that he does what he pleases.

Once again I think you didn't read the post well. I never said Spike was under their control. I said that because of their respective human past Angelus wanted to control everything, and that Spike was the one who, as a vampire, refused to submit, refused to be ruled by anything anymore.

And his idea of fun came to him long before he ever knew who Drusilla was.

Where did you see that on screen? At the party with Cecily? When he recited his poetry to his mother and talked about getting married? Colour me confused here.

He just didn't have the drive or opportunity to act upon it.

That's why I said that being a rule-breaker was tied in with the victorian society in which he lived before being sired. All that was repressed then, including his sexual appetites, got unleashed when he got sired.

My apologies. I was confused by how you'd earlier phrased comments about his relationships with Dru, Darla, and Angelus. As though, perhaps, the vampire he became was their fault. (beyond merely Drusilla turning him) Because it seemed to me that, beyond perhaps picking up a few tricks of the trade, Spike would have been no different a vampire had he never met Angelus & Darla.

Oh I probably phrased many things wrong or in a clumsy way for English isn't my native language!

As much as I want my thoughts top come clear, they don't always end up as such.

If he had never run into Angelus and Darla in the street he might have never became a vampire at all!

I do believe in nurture more than in nature, so any background is essential, the human one and the vampiric one.

Would have Spike changed that much if he had not be chipped and never met Buffy? I don't think so.

Nurture is usually important, but most scenes Angel(us) has in which his 'teaching' of Spike is brought up -- Angel generally seems to express that he couldn't get Spike to do anything Spike didn't want to do. Angelus would say stuff, Spike would get his own ideas and look to run off in another direction, and Angelus couldn't stop him.

Which is to say that the Vampire Spike was, wasn't so much about what Angelus taught or wanted, but about what Spike thought he should be and somewhat influenced by what Angelus would say. Angelus mentions the slayer, and then Spike has to run off and kill one. Now, Angelus doesn't really want Spike to be killing slayers - and ultimately Spike isn't killing a Slayer to prove something to Angel but because it's what he really wants to be doing regardless of what Angelus thinks.

Same as in S6 with Buffy... where Spike will tell Buffy he's doing what she wanted and trying to be what she wants him to be, but that really isn't the case. He's doing what he thinks will get her to love him without necessarily listening to what she says.

Spike hears Buffy say "I couldn't trust/love you because you don't have a soul" and so he eventually goes off and gets one. But it's not like Buffy actually told him to get a soul, or wanted him to get a soul. He hears what people say, and when it seems to coincide with what he wants, he takes those ideas and runs with them.

WHich is, for me, to say that I think all of the big 'nurture stuff' with Spike was already set before he got made a vampire and is more important than the nurture stuff after that. Until he gets the soul back, and then he really grows up more in S7 and on AtS in S5.

But interactions with other don't mean submission. I don't equate being influenced by a background with obeying and submitting.

I think that living with someone like Angel(us), someone who is a control freak helped to develop the rebel side Spike has displayed several times on screen.

As for killing Slayers, I think that Spike did it to prove something to himself, because he needed challenge. Bragging afterwards and pissing off Angel might be simply a plus but it's also part of the equation.

I don't disagree with what you said though because I've always thought that Spike's years as a soulless vampire represented his adolescent self. He was stuck in a neverending teenage until he won back his soul and therefore accepted to grow-up. That's why Spike' s journey was a good parallel echoing Buffy's on BTVS.

I think that living with someone like Angel(us), someone who is a control freak

I think that's overstating it, though. Angelus isn't a control freak. I don't think a control freak wouldn't be able to live with a woman as strong willed as Darla for 150 years.

Angelus' particulars is not being obsessed with controlling others, but with not being controlled. He likes being 'daddy' not for the control, but because it proves that he's better at it than his own father was. What he sees himself as doing, is helping people be all that they can be - what Angel winds up doing again with Faith later on.

And you can't do that if you make their decisions for them, like his father wanted to do for him. It's also why he gives up on the Vampire Penn, who he probably could control, but who has no imagination of his own and thus doesn't learn or do anything new or interesting.

I'm not saying he doesn't like control. But it's not the be all end all for him. Angelus might like that he can control Dru, but he gets tired of having to do it, and so he's usually pretty happy to have Spike around occupying her time and making her happy. It makes Angelus freer from her neediness.

And because Spike has an independent streak, and a lot of creativity, he's also a fun person for Angelus to work with. Even though he's also very frustrating for him.

Darla might have been strong willed, but she was a whore and it was her job to make men believe they were in charge while they were not.

Angelus didn't like chaos at all and so did not ensouled Angel. He liked situations he could control. And even after the soul he did make decisions for others all the time(Buffy, Connor and the mindwipe, Lawson in WWF). He may not have always sought control for control itself but I do think he had control issues.

Angelus didn't like surprises. It's basically what Spike told him in the FFL flashbacks, about fighting only when he was sure he would win.

Why did he keep William within his family? Well, in "Destiny" he said it was nice to have a male around, besides he coiuld have considered the newly sired vampire as a project and as you said Spike was useful in regard to Dru. They did have a complicated and intriguing relationship.

Also William was pretty, but there I'd be heading towards fanwanking areas.

Really great post!

I aggree with all you said, save for the fact that the chip forces him to live with human being. I think the chip simply offers him the possibility and that it's a choice Spike made, and one he made twice.
First, when he went to Giles in Pangs. Even if he thought he couldn't hurt anyone (human or demon) at that point, nothing was stopping him from breaking into the hospital at night and steal blood bags, especially considering that Sunnydale's hospital didn't have the best security in the world. If he was worried about the Initiative, he could have left the town.
He did it too when he discovered he could hurt demons. He choose to keep helping Buffy and the Scoobies, albeit for a price, and yes, he will betray them later (but I believe it was only a matter of priorities), while he could have easily dominated some demons into becoming his minions and excerting revenge.

I think that what drove Spike, in all his incarnations, was the desire to find, not someone who would love him as he wanted, but someone who would accept to be loved as Spike wanted to love them and that this particular desire is what allowed him to change. The evil things he did, I think he didn't do them because they were evil (something I can see Darla, Angelus and Drusilla doing) but because he thought they would give him some sort of leverage to finally be accepted. And this is what I don't really consider Spike as evil. He did evil things, right, but the evilness of it was, in my opinion, secondary.

First, when he went to Giles in Pangs. Even if he thought he couldn't hurt anyone (human or demon) at that point, nothing was stopping him from breaking into the hospital at night and steal blood bags, especially considering that Sunnydale's hospital didn't have the best security in the world. If he was worried about the Initiative, he could have left the town.

Yeah there are plotholes. But the writers needed him in Giles' house! Suspension of disbelief...

I agree Spike needs to belong to something, to a group. Despite the punk attitude, he is not a loner but a social being. That's why he stayed in L.A with Angel's team.

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Spike the monster

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